An Interview with Petra and Tom Damms
Born in then-Czechoslovakia, Petra Damms was 12 when the Communist regime fell in 1989. After many years abroad, she returned to Prague in 2012 with her British husband, Tom, and subsequently began a Christian ministry providing material and spiritual support to detained refugees, Dignity. The Damms and their two daughters attend an international, nondenominational church, the International Church of Prague, which is led by U.S. Pastor Drew Stephens.
In November 2019 the editor of the East-West Church Report met with Petra and Tom inside Prague’s Laterna Magika [Czech: Magician’s Lantern] Theater—in November 1989 the impromptu headquarters of the peaceful revolutionaries opposing the Communist regime. The conversation took place in English.
Petra, did you have a religious upbringing in Czechoslovakia?
Petra: No, not at all. My grandparents were members of an underground Protestant church in southern Bohemia [now part of the Czech Republic]. They did not even have their own Bible—there were just pages torn out of a Bible circulating from household to household. People added their comments and reflections, and this was passed around the community. However, my parents lived and worked in northern Bohemia and respected the Communist regime—it was everything to us. My mother would identify as a believer, but she did not attend church, and my father was a strong atheist. I thought that if the government put you in prison for something, then it had to be bad. I never wanted to have anything to do with this “God” thing; it was not for me.
Then 1989 came. The Velvet Revolution meant that I was allowed to go to university—previously that would have been impossible, as my parents were not members of the Communist Party. I joined a student exchange program to the United States for one year. But I stayed nine years—I got married and had a daughter. Unfortunately, that relationship became very abusive, and I had to escape—with my daughter—a situation of domestic violence. I left in the summer of 2005—I actually came to Christ on the flight.
There is more to that story—I don’t know if you want to hear it or not.
Go ahead.
Petra: As I was leaving the Czech Republic to go to the U.S. for what I thought was just a year, my grandma came to the airport and gave me her Bible. This was the one with taped pages and different people’s handwriting in it. I took it just as a keepsake—I never read it. When we were at the airport preparing to leave the U.S., one of the items I felt that I needed to take in my carry-on case was this Bible. Then, on the onward flight from Vienna to Prague, as I placed my case in the overhead locker, I felt an order—not “Maybe you should do that,” but “Keep that Bible with you!” It was strange, because I was thinking of coloring books and toys to amuse my child. Why would I need this keepsake? But the sensation froze me—“You do that!”—so I took the Bible.
We were forced to make an emergency landing. About 15 minutes into the flight from Vienna, one of the engines failed, and the aircraft dipped for a second. Everything was at the ceiling, and people were injured and bleeding. Then, a few minutes later, the second engine failed; the pilot came onto speaker phone and told us that we would not make it back to the airport, but would land wherever we could, and that the flight attendants would prepare us for an emergency landing. But the flight attendants were crying and could not speak. At that moment, I imagine all of us were thinking, “This is it, we are going to die.” That was the moment when I knew I needed to open the Bible. With this fear—with my brain saying, “This is it, we are going to die”—I opened the Bible, and I felt an outpouring of love, forgiveness, and reassurance embrace me. I thought, “If I’m feeling like this—at peace— when I know I’m meeting death, I’m going to follow this God if I walk out of this aircraft. I’m going to follow you and surrender my life to you, God. Whatever you call me to do— my life is yours.” We did land, on a field in Austria—everyone on board survived. That was the start of my walk with Christ.
How did it continue in the Czech Republic?
Petra: I attended a few services at a Roman Catholic Church, but it did not feel right. It was a long path, but I eventually found a different church. After meeting Tom, we moved to northern England in 2007. We lived in a small village and attended a Baptist church. Then Tom received a promotion, to be based in either Prague or Istanbul.
So you chose the Czech Republic.
Tom: It was not a ministry calling when we moved to Prague—it was just a job. There was nothing about refugees in the news then, back in 2012.
How did your refugee ministry begin?
Petra: Tom had his marketing position, and I had two part-time jobs. Then in June 2015 I had the feeling of being called for something. It was just, “You will need to leave your jobs, and I will need you.” In the light of previous lessons of obedience in my life, I gave up those two jobs, and we were just waiting. Then we looked at the news on 28 August 2015—it was about the first wave of refugees coming through the Czech Republic from Hungary by train. They were switching trains in Prague and travelling to Berlin. As we watched, my heart just sang, and I knew this was it. “This is what I’m calling you for, I want you to care for these people.” But the pictures from the news report were so violent—“these are evil people, terrorists, this government will save you from them.” So I was anxious. Where would I find them? I would need to go to those places shown on the news. I immediately thought, “No, I’m not doing that.” I did not feel equipped. I had never met anyone from the Middle East. I did not speak their language. I did not know their culture. I thought, “Find a man. Find somebody bigger, stronger.” I did not want to be vulnerable there. But after a lot of prayer that night, I was on the platform at the railway station the next morning, with bread rolls, coffee, and tea.
It was only through this work that I found out how well equipped I was. I had ended up in a country that I did not necessarily choose to be in, and had had to flee. I had a biracial child who was very much bullied at school here because she has a different skin color, a different nose, different hair. And now I had mothers crying to me: “We are so bullied and unaccepted here!” Turning up on a platform with one suitcase of useless things—I was exactly like that. So I was able to share my story and testimony with them—and cry with them.
What was it that made you think this was what you had to do in terms of a Christian response, if the news was saying that these were people we should be protected from?
Petra: This is the fight between respecting your government and following Christ. It is not always a single path. I chose—not to ignore—but not to pay too much attention to what the government and media were saying, because I had a very strong call to follow Christ in this. And if God was calling me, my prayer was also for Him to protect me. How did you connect the situation with Christian teaching? Petra: I saw sons and daughters of Christ. God loves them just as much as He loves me, whether they are now Muslims, or Hindu, or atheists, or whoever they are. They are in this need right now, this situation, and they are landing on our doorsteps. The government is already labeling them in a certain way. God was calling me to be there, and it was very much to offer material help, as well as to offer Jesus.
How did this develop into your ministry, Dignity?
Petra: In 2015 we worked at Prague Railway Station. We had over 200 volunteers, and we covered the station 24/7. We had signs on us saying, “Help for refugees” in English, Arabic, and Farsi. We faced opposition from Czechs—we were spat upon, shoved, and our stand was demolished several times. People said, “You are a traitor, how dare you betray our country! Why are you helping these people?”
Then in October 2015 the refugees were no longer allowed to transit through the Czech Republic, and the government opened the first detention centers. They were locked up in these centers, so we started to visit them. It was very difficult. We could only have a one-on-one meeting, and so we had to be able to identify the refugee we were visiting. People lost their identity when they were detained, because the government did not believe who they said they were. They either had no papers, or they could have false papers.
So they were issued with numbers, which were written with a permanent marker on their wrists or ankles at the railway station, children and babies included. They were known by this number, and so we needed to know the relevant number, nationality, and date of birth—then we could visit one-onone in this prison-like setting. We also had to go through a strip search. None of the detention centers were in Prague, so we were travelling three hours to get there, spending half an hour with one refugee, and then travelling three hours back. The whole day would be gone, and we had visited only one person. It was very difficult and emotionally draining, and we lost lots of volunteers.
This experience turned out to be extremely important, however, because we started to make a database of people in different centers. They were splitting up families, so there were males, females, and unaccompanied minors. If you were a refugee entering a detention center, you had to surrender all your possessions: money, jewelry—including wedding rings, which was very humiliating, especially for the ladies—and cell phones, which meant you had no way to communicate. If the authorities were able to confirm your identity you would be released, but you would be charged a fee, so you left either with no money or in debt. You would normally be released in the evening—the gate shut behind you and you had no idea where your relatives were and no way of communicating with them.
When we started to hear about these people being released, we went to meet them and brought them to Prague. Volunteers offered accommodations, and we also had interpreters and other services. With a database, we could try to locate other family members. People would leave the detention centers with a so-called exit visa; in practice, this meant that they could stay in the Czech Republic for up to seven days, but then they had to leave. Very rarely we managed to reunite families still in the Czech Republic, but most of the time we would see people off to Germany, stay in touch with them, and reunite them with other family members once they were released. That was the initial work, in 2015 and 2016.
Later, we realized we needed to work on a more solid basis, as a recognized charitable organization. We formally registered Dignity as a non-governmental organization in March 2018. Looking back, obedience was once again crucial here. To start with, I was just an individual, and that is why I was allowed into the detention centers. Organizations were not allowed inside, because they were viewed as a potential threat. But just one woman? “Yeah, just let her in. What can she do?” So if we had been Dignity back then, most likely we would not have been allowed inside. You don’t see the big picture—you just do what you are called to do.
How has the situation changed since 2016?
Petra: There are now two different types of centers— for detention and for integration. Integration occurs for those who apply for asylum in the Czech Republic. In the early years, nobody wanted to stay in the Czech Republic, as neighboring Germany was like a big, open door. But now the situation has completely reversed.
According to the European Union’s so-called Dublin Regulation, refugees are supposed to stay in the first EU country they enter and claim asylum there. There are also official quotas, according to which refugees are relocated proportionally across the EU. The Czech Republic, Hungary, and Poland have refused to accept this relocation. However, many refugees were detained, fingerprinted, and documented by the Czech government in 2015, so while it does not make sense geographically, the Czech Republic legally remains the country of entry for them. Germany and Sweden have now started to send refugees back to the Czech Republic as their country of entry, and so we are seeing many people coming back here. Work with them is much more difficult, because they never wanted to be here. In many cases they have lived in Germany or Sweden for months, and have even started to integrate there with strong community support. Then they end up in a detention center here with zero support. People may be detained for years, and there is heavy overcrowding.
Tom: One detention center in a town called Kostelec is a former prison. It was built for 250 inmates, but the last time we had figures there were 720 asylum seekers there. A smallish room will usually house one family. Single people and couples quite often share rooms. Legally, they are allowed to leave the camp after six months, but in practice they cannot find work as they have limited Czech language skills and an unclear asylum status. Many times we have tried to help people with work, but the potential employer has pointed out that if they invest in the person and train them, they could still be deported within 24 hours. Without work, they cannot find accommodations. It is a vicious circle. Arabic Bibles (Source: T. DAMMS)
Are these people typically fleeing Syria and Iraq?
Tom: Initially, yes, and also Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Palestine, and Lebanon. But more recently we are seeing a very broad variety. Many come from Venezuela, also former Soviet states such as Ukraine—there are people from Crimea, Uzbekistan, and Turkmenistan. There are also many coming from African countries, such as Eritrea and Sudan. So we are dealing with multiple different languages, religions, and backgrounds. Those from China have usually fled religious persecution, and we work with a lot of Chinese Christians. In 2017 we also started an Arabic church in Prague—there are now two in the city. One pastor is a German who lived in Lebanon for 23 years, and the second is a refugee himself, from Iraq. This is something we hope will grow. Our vision is of a truly international church.
Petra: It is amazing how God works—you can never predict it. For example, we prayed for one guy in detention who was a trained ISIS [Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant] soldier. We gave him a Bible. He was in very bad shape emotionally because he had been programmed to hurt people. There was a lot of mistrust, and he attempted suicide several times. But we were later told that whenever he felt the need to hurt somebody, he would open this Bible and read it aloud in the detention center, with strong emotion and expression. Some people actually came to Christ through this guy—who did not believe himself, but just felt that there was something strong in the book he was reading which helped him to suppress feelings of wanting to hurt people.
Tom: One lady we work with very closely fled from Iran. Her family followed the stereotypical route of refugees—they arrived in Turkey, where they were trafficked and smuggled in little boats across the Aegean Sea to Greece. They ended up in an apartment in Athens with the smugglers promising to obtain false documents for them to move on. Days turned to weeks, and weeks to months. Interestingly, this lady told us that Bibles in different languages had been placed in this apartment, and the smugglers said to them: “Learn a few passages of the Bible, because once you reach Germany”—which is usually where refugees want to go—“you can say you are Christian, quote a few Bible verses, and you will have more chance of being granted asylum.” So it was a ploy. When we first heard that, we thought: “That’s terrible, to use the Bible in such a way!” But what this Iranian lady said was: “I’d never had a Bible. I’d heard of Jesus, but it was the first chance I’d had to actually read about this.” When she arrived in the Czech Republic she was detained at the airport, as the false documents she had did not work. She came to Christ in the detention center, through that introduction sitting for months in the Athens apartment, thinking “I need to learn a few verses” and then “Wow, there is something in this!”
What does your current work with refugees consist of ?
Tom: There are three ways that we serve: meeting practical needs, emotional needs, and spiritual needs. Refugees are allowed to leave their detention center every two weeks for 24 hours, and we bring different groups of around 30 into Prague. We bring them by train to a church community center, which we rent for the day. We spend the day with them; we cook lunch, eat together, and have a devotional. A pastor from one of the international churches comes, and we pray with and for them. To meet their practical needs, we run a “free shop” at the community center. We have clothes, toys, and books, including Bibles. There are a lot of newborn babies in the camps, so we supply diapers and formula. But this is also about us forming a relationship of trust. Typically they ask, “What is it that is different about you?” which is an opportunity to talk to them about Christ. But we don’t meet someone and say, “Here’s a Bible, you must read this!”
Roughly what percentage of the people you are dealing with are believers of some sort?
Tom: Most would say “I am X or Y.” In the last group we had, there was a Hindu family, a Muslim family, and a family who were not believers, as well as a Christian family.
But they are generally quite open to being in contact with people of another faith?
Tom: They are. What we find, particularly with those who have fled Syria or Iraq and who are Muslim, is that they tend to have a lot of doubts and questions. They have fled from ISIS, and they say, “I have seen such terrible things done in the name of my God.”
Petra: They are so shattered. They are actually in a much worse state than the Christians who are fleeing, because they are losing their faith, whereas faith is something that the Christians can really lean on.
I think it is key for Christians in Europe to engage right at this moment. They are saying, “Is this the right God? Do I need to kill for Him?” I see this influx of refugees as having two significant aspects for the Church in Europe, and definitely in the Czech Republic. One is a great opportunity to share the Gospel, because these people are coming to us—we do not have to go there. Secondly, it is challenging us as Christians. The Christians who are coming shake local Christians also to think, “Where is my faith? Is my faith a true faith?” There are families who had to stay strong in Christ at gunpoint, who lost family members when people put guns to their heads and told them they had to give up Christ and accept Allah.
Tom: In 2018 I met a pastor from Sweden at a conference. He mentioned the fear people have of refugees coming in, of Christianity dying and Islam taking over. “My church has been revitalized,” he said. Sweden is a very secular society and church attendance has been declining. He said his church was almost empty, but now on a Sunday there are queues down the street to get in, because it has been revitalized by this new refugee community that is so eager to learn and to share.
In fact, the lady from Iran who was in the apartment in Athens is a very powerful evangelist. A group recently visited from the United States, and she asked one of the students: “You are from the U.S., a big Christian nation. What do you do as a Christian?” This teenage girl said, “I go to church, and sometimes I help out with the kids at Sunday school.” This Iranian lady got very emotional. We were watching and overhearing, and we knew what was coming. She stood up and said: “What? You have the Holy Spirit in you. Do you know the power in you, the things you can do?...”
Petra: “...That’s the power that brought Christ from the grave, the power that is in you! You cannot just go to church in a free country, like the U.S.! You need to do more than this!” She was so outraged!
Yet we often hear political rhetoric that suggests, “We can’t let these people in because we have Christian values here.” Petra: Who knows?
Maybe the situation will settle in 10, 20, or 50 years. Maybe the European Church will strengthen if Christians step up. Muslims who are coming may come to Christ over 20, 50, or 100 years. Who knows what the bigger picture is? But if you are called for something—even if it is just to feed a child on the platform of a railway station—that is your calling.
