An Interview with Kamila Dembińska and Magda Wroniszewska
The Club of the Catholic Intelligentsia [Polish: Klub Inteligencji Katolickiej]—colloquially known by its Polish acronym, KIK—is headquartered in a quiet alley in Warsaw’s Old Town. KIK was founded in 1956, during a brief political thaw in then-Communist Poland, and is independent of both the state and the Catholic Church. The Club played an instrumental role in Poland’s transition to democratic rule in the late 1980s, and one of its founders— Tadeusz Mazowiecki—became Poland’s first post-Communist Prime Minister.
Today, KIK has local branches across Poland. The largest is in Warsaw, and comprises some 5,000 families. Its most active volunteers—approximately 700 members— organize numerous activities with a Christian ethic, including children’s camps, support for civil society in Belarus and Ukraine, student events, and production of a magazine, Kontakt. In late August the editor of the East-West Church Report met two such volunteers at KIK’s headquarters: Kamila Dembińska, a child care worker, and her friend Magda Wroniszewska, an architect, in order to learn about the Club’s recent efforts assisting refugees from the war in Ukraine. The conversation took place in English.
How has KIK been involved in assisting refugees from the war in Ukraine?
Magda: We have a sector for refugees called Gość w Dom—in English, “A Guest in the House.” The name comes from an old Polish proverb, Gość w dom, Bóg w dom,” “A guest in the house—God in the house.” The meaning is that, by inviting someone into your home, you are welcoming God. The idea for this came prior to the war in Ukraine, with the crisis at the border with Belarus. We were so angry at our government’s response that we wanted to do something. So when people began to flee Ukraine a few months later, we were already prepared.
[Editor’s note: From mid-2021 onwards, Belarusian autocrat Aleksandr Lukashenko pushed thousands of migrants from Afghanistan, Iraq, and elsewhere over his country’s border into Poland and other neighboring European Union states. The move came as retaliation for EU assistance to Belarusian pro-democracy initiatives during mass protests against Lukashenko’s rule the previous year.]
Kamila: That is something very special about KIK members. They are always ready in a crisis. All you need is an idea, then you create a group of people who think the same, who are ready to get involved, and the action starts. Sometimes it is small-scale, but sometimes it is huge, as with this action for refugees.
Magda: You can just make a call and the next day something happens. It does not take hours of planning or creating a special group for the task. There is no need to explain certain things—they are obvious.
Kamila: Yes, we have the same values, so it is easy to react and act altogether, quickly. We know what is important, when and where we have to be ready to do something. A lot of our ongoing activities started right after the Russian invasion on 24 February.
Magda: We decided on our hostel for refugees within a few hours, for example. When the first shelling happened around 4 a.m., we said we needed 20 people. A few hours later even more than that had responded, and they organized accommodations for refugees within two hours.
Kamila: Then, on the last day of February, we heard from the owner of a hostel that it would be empty for the next three months. So Magda and I went to take a look the very next day, and that same day we had people from Central Station sleeping there. During those three months we hosted 700 people.
This hostel sheltered people of different nationalities?
Kamila: Yes, there were many foreigners living or studying in Ukraine; people from North African countries, also the former USSR.
Magda: The problem was that our government decided to open up Poland only to those who held Ukrainian citizenship, and so a large group of people found themselves without any support. They could stay legally in Poland for 15 days, but with no social security—nothing. So our hostel was for these people. Those who came at the beginning stayed for only one or two nights as they knew very well what to do next: They had friends or family somewhere in Europe, so they just needed a place for a few nights. But after that we had many families and young people who had no idea what to do. They did not want to go back to their countries of origin because it was not safe there, and some regarded Ukraine as their homeland and really wanted to return there.
Kamila: We provided clothes and shoes for those who came with only a few plastic bags. We had 120 volunteers, but of course not everyone came every day. We divided the day into four shifts and had three people on each one.
Magda: Interestingly, one of our volunteers was a guy from Afghanistan who had come across the Belarusian border.
Kamila: He was picked up by a Polish organization and was so grateful that he stayed on to volunteer.
Magda: He was very helpful to us, because during this period we had Polish Easter holidays, and as a non-Catholic he was able to fill in on shifts. Most of our volunteers were students, but we also had a very elegant couple in their 70s who said they wanted to help. At first we were not sure what they could do due to their age, but they turned out to be great.
Kamila: Those older generations—including me— learned Russian at school. The language of communication with the refugees was mostly Russian, so if you knew that language—like this couple—it was easier. Of course, not everyone spoke Russian—the third-country refugees spoke different languages.
Magda: We had a lot of students from North Africa. I speak French, so it was easy for me to communicate with them.
What were the refugees’ usual reactions to the invasion?
Magda: We did not try to talk to them about it.
Kamila: They were so afraid that they were just concentrating on what to do next. And you only had use of the hostel for three months?
Kamila: Yes, until the end of May. We are still searching for another place to continue. Magda: We did find some buildings, but there was always a problem with capacity or the amount of renovation work needed. A big, open hostel was okay for a first response, but we will probably focus on smaller, separate apartments.
How else have you helped refugees from Ukraine?
Kamila: We have organized 12 [metric] tonnes of humanitarian and medical aid, and we continue to organize transportation of medical equipment to hospitals in Ukraine. Some of these products are very specific and not easy to find. In mid-April we also began popołudniki, or afternoon classes, for around 300 mothers and children at four Warsaw schools.
Magda: That was in the early weeks of the war, when we thought we had to do something to help mothers find friends among women in the same situation.
Kamila: We organized psychological support with Ukrainian translation, Polish language classes, museum visits, and so on. Later, in co-operation with Ukraiński Dom [Polish: Ukrainian House, a Polish NGO run by Ukrainians], we succeeded in opening a Ukrainian school in Warsaw, which enabled around 250 kids to finish the school year within the Ukrainian educational system and receive their certificates. That was also set up thanks to the activity of volunteers: We found the premises, but had to repaint the walls, and so on. Thanks to a grant from Save the Children, it will continue to operate this coming school year.
Magda: That also started with an idea: “Ah yes, I know a building that is vacant. It used to be a school—maybe we can recreate a school, but for Ukrainians?” It was similarly a decision made within two days and opened after two weeks— thanks to this grant for equipment.
Kamila: During the summer holidays we also organized seven or eight week-long youth camps in Warsaw, as well as camps by the seaside and in the mountains, for almost 1,000 Ukrainian children. That too was funded by Save the Children. Do you co-ordinate with Caritas, or other Catholic charities?
Kamila: A little bit with Caritas. Magda: Not with other Catholic organizations, but others: PAH—Polish Humanitarian Action [Polsk
Do you co-ordinate with Caritas, or other Catholic charities?
Kamila: A little bit with Caritas. Magda: Not with other Catholic organizations, but others: PAH—Polish Humanitarian Action [Polska
How has it been for Poles who offered to host Ukrainian refugees in their own homes?
Kamila: We have open hearts, and we want to host people in our houses and apartments, but after some weeks or a month it might not be so easy.
Magda: It is not so easy having your own family or friends in your house for too long! Kamila: For some of us, having three, four, or five additional people is also not so easy from a financial point of view.
Magda: For example, I have elderly relatives who hosted a Ukrainian family at the beginning of the war. There were three generations—mother-in-law, daughter-in-law, and kids, and there was a quarrel within this family. The daughter-in-law wanted to stay in Poland, while the mother in-law wanted to go back, even though they had come from a Russian-occupied area, and her son was fighting in the Ukrainian army. It was so difficult for my relatives to hear this quarrel, and after three months the financial costs of hosting them were also very great. At that point, some younger relatives of mine raised enough money for this Ukrainian family to move into a separate apartment, just to resolve the situation in a humanitarian way.
What is your motivation for being involved in all this?
Kamila: My whole family has long been involved in KIK. My parents were involved in the pro-democracy movement here in Poland. That is how most of the core members joined, and why they are here. So it was something natural, also for my kids. For them it is obvious—they are also in our kids’ and teenagers’ groups, and I’m pretty sure they will continue to be active here.
Magda: Some of our kids have also been volunteering— those who are 16 or older. We try to involve each generation.
Kamila: For me, those are Christian values. Helping people—the main Commandment is to love people, and for me, that is to be Christian. I am well educated, I have the opportunity to live in an ordinary family without basic needs, and so I have to give back and help people on a different path towards their own success in life. While I love my work, I also like to get involved in other activities.
Would you say that this has been the typical response in Poland?
Magda: At the beginning of the war in Ukraine, Polish society acted very well. People showed that they were Christian, with big hearts. But a few months before this war, when there was the crisis on the Belarusian border, the response was very sad. People I know, whom I thought were really good Christians—even a few people inside KIK—said, “What! They are trying to cross the border in an illegal way? I don’t feel like helping them. They are just illegal people in Poland, so let’s just push them back.” For me this was a very big moment. When KIK created a place to help on the Belarusian border, I was so glad. I spent a week volunteering there.
So, the popular attitude towards refugees is not so clear-cut?
Magda: No. For example, this summer I went with my family to a church in a small village near where we were staying on holiday, a small church full of people. The priest serving Mass started to say such bad things about refugees in his sermon—really bad things, treating them as not human. Including Ukrainian refugees?
Magda: Actually, his example was of how good Polish people are helping Ukrainians, who are good immigrants, unlike the bad immigrants: Black people, Syrians, Afghans. He was talking about how we are so good, because we were opening our hearts to good immigrants, while those bad immigrants want to invade, rape our women, and so on. He was really aggressive. Without thinking, I walked into the middle of the church, and I said to this priest, “What kind of priest are you, you can’t say such things! It’s not Christian, not human!” My 10-year-old daughter had been dozing off because what he had been saying was so boring to her. But when she saw that I was going and standing in the middle of the church in front of all those people and shouting something, she woke up: “Mum, what’s happening? What did the priest just say?” [Laughs.] What was the priest’s reaction?
Magda: You know, I don’t remember. I was so angry—I didn’t plan it—that I just went back home and all the family came with me.
Kamila: Unfortunately, it is quite possible that the attitude of this priest was typical. And parish priests have a very strong position in such small villages. Magda: So now I know I cannot go back to this village. I am probably someone quite notorious there! [Laughs.]
